tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112439593032667008.post7016712972187356813..comments2023-04-22T12:31:37.714-07:00Comments on Blogging the Bible: August 6Kimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15063678082377147197noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112439593032667008.post-82326490322789625142010-08-08T16:29:17.505-07:002010-08-08T16:29:17.505-07:00Oppose sounds like a decided improvement. =)Oppose sounds like a decided improvement. =)Erikahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16846371347200009801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112439593032667008.post-47210321251448175952010-08-07T04:50:45.087-07:002010-08-07T04:50:45.087-07:00I'm beginning to think that our difference of ...I'm beginning to think that our difference of opinion is due to semantics, or maybe I am just misusing the word, hate. When I think of "hate," I think of "strong dislike." I am not thinking of it as an emotion in itself. The emotions connected to my "hating" injustice and suffering are sadness that it exists and frustration at wanting to stop it but not knowing how. Similarly, I do not think of love as an emotion. Love is a deep commitment that has emotions associated with it, but true love is not an emotion in itself. <br /><br />But even though I don't view hatred as an emotion, and even though I'm not talking about it as an emotion now, I DO speak of it as an emotion sometimes, like when I speak of people having hatred for other races that leads them to treat them in unspeakable ways. So it's not that I don't understand your use of the word; I think it is that I apparently have two different definitions in my mind for the word "hate." <br /><br />I just looked it up (did I really have to look up the word, "hate"?), and I do see that emotions of hostility and animosity are traditionally associated with the word. So you are right...maybe it is the wrong word. If nothing else, its connotations of malicious emotions are certainly not what I was trying to convey with my sentence. I'm not sure what to replace it with. Oppose, maybe?Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15063678082377147197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112439593032667008.post-52599925760496355882010-08-06T23:33:19.234-07:002010-08-06T23:33:19.234-07:00Hate clouds judgment. We should condemn injustice ...Hate clouds judgment. We should condemn injustice and suffering. We should fight them. But should we hate them? I am not so sure. I suspect that leads to rash and ineffective responses. It may motivate one to initiate action, but in the long term hatred, even just hatred, destroys.Erikahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16846371347200009801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112439593032667008.post-27223224812824232532010-08-06T19:08:54.077-07:002010-08-06T19:08:54.077-07:00Fair enough, Erika. I see your point. And since ...Fair enough, Erika. I see your point. And since I now see clearly that it is the concept of hatred that bothers you, let me say a few words on that.<br /><br />Perhaps hatred is a strong word, and I first have to clarify that I do NOT believe that God hates people. From what I read in the Bible, I believe that God hates injustice, He hates the suffering of the poor and innocent, and He hates the causes of that injustice and suffering, which includes sin. The key, of course, for Christians, is to hate in the appropriate way, which is to hate the suffering/injustice/sin APART from the people committing or causing it, AND to react in the way that God tells us to in His word. I have a few verses that guide me in that understanding.<br /><br />"Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." Eph. 6:11-12. These verses tell me that people are not the enemy.<br /><br />"For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds." I Cor. 10:3-4. Our weapon to fight injustice is not violence, but love. This verse doesn't specify that love is the weapon, but I get that from so many other verses--indeed, from the whole theme of the NT.<br /><br />And lastly, "Do not be overcome with evil, but overcome evil with good" (Rom. 12:22). Rather than respond like for like, we are to respond with goodness when confronted with the injustice, suffering, and sin that God hates.<br /><br />Like I said earlier, I get that "hate" is a strong word, and I also get how it has been and continues to be a dangerous force when misused. But surely we SHOULD hate injustice and suffering, right?Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15063678082377147197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112439593032667008.post-73825395689332450812010-08-06T16:27:54.085-07:002010-08-06T16:27:54.085-07:00I know that you don't actually know me, but I ...<i>I know that you don't actually know me, but I would hope that, based on our limited interaction, you would hear me say, "I love what God loves" and not jump immediately to the Spanish Inquisition. To do so just doesn't seem really fair to me.</i><br /><br />To be fair, you didn't just say that you love what God loves, you said you hate what God hates, and that leads directly to the Spanish Inquisition.Erikahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16846371347200009801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112439593032667008.post-27212536588720426922010-08-06T16:26:55.621-07:002010-08-06T16:26:55.621-07:00Thanks for the clarification, and I do agree with ...Thanks for the clarification, and I do agree with your general point that strong beliefs can be threatening. And I am most certainly not really scared by the part of your statement that says you believe you are coming to love what God loves.<br /><br />The part that seemed terrifying was where you declared, "I hate what God hates". Because hate is such a destructive emotion, believing that you are correctly hating in God's name is what terrifies me. Remember, the God of the Old Testament showed his hatred by the violent destruction of his enemies.<br /><br />Now, maybe you didn't really mean it when you said that you believe that you are coming to more and more hate what God hates, but there are people who believe that, and it is terrifying.Erikahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16846371347200009801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112439593032667008.post-18816279742994455102010-08-06T06:23:25.889-07:002010-08-06T06:23:25.889-07:00Okay, sorry to continue to spout forth, but I was ...Okay, sorry to continue to spout forth, but I was thinking further about your comment.<br /><br />I think that the bottom line is that strong beliefs are scary, ESPECIALLY when they are different from our own. People today are freaking out b/c Muslims are wanting to build mosques in this country. The sentiment seems to be, "You know those people have a propensity to blow up buildings, right? Do we really want such an...er...explosive religion in our neighborhood?" There was a similar outcry over Catholics back in the day. I have actually read pamphlets sent out during the JFK election, warning people that, as a Catholic, Kennedy took orders from the Pope. What if the Pope told him to do something counter to American interests? What if the Pope wanted to make America a vassal state of Rome? Or, for that matter, there have been similar terrors associated with atheists: "You know those people don't believe in a God, right? How then can they believe in right and wrong, in absolute truth? How can they have any moral compass at all? Who KNOWS what an atheist might do? Look at Stalin! We certainly don't want any atheists in leadership positions!"<br /><br />Now, I can see why any of those belief systems would pose valid concerns to people who don't share them. At the same time, I do NOT believe that the answer is to forbid or to discourage any kind of strong belief. The forced secularization of culture is just as oppressive as an imposed religion. Rather, I believe that the key is found in communication, the type that we are doing right now. I know that you don't actually know me, but I would hope that, based on our limited interaction, you would hear me say, "I love what God loves" and not jump immediately to the Spanish Inquisition. To do so just doesn't seem really fair to me. And I don't mean that like I am personally hurt, b/c honestly, I'm not. I appreciate that you shared what you thought. But I do think it highlights a basic human unwillingness to give the benefit of the doubt to people who believe differently from us. And that's not a Christian or an atheist or an Islamic thing. That's just a human thing, and I know that I am guilty of it myself...<br /><br />End ramble.Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15063678082377147197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112439593032667008.post-35267083652263285382010-08-06T05:49:59.613-07:002010-08-06T05:49:59.613-07:00Hmmmm...I can certainly see what you are saying, a...Hmmmm...I can certainly see what you are saying, as well as the potential for abuse there. It even scares me sometimes when leaders seem to insinuate that they believe that they have received God's guidance in their decisions. While I do prefer my leaders to be Christian, and while I believe that God does guide Christians, it still makes it scary, given the corruptible nature of man, to think that a leader has power over our lives and that he might somehow think that he is the mouthpiece or the hand of God.<br /><br />At the same time, how do you convey a life controlled by the Spirit WITHOUT sounding somewhat scary? How do you describe the process of transformation, which is ultimately of becoming more like Christ...who is God? When you say, "I think I'm becoming more like God," I can see how that might sound terrifying, but how DO you say it?<br /><br />All that I can say is that I know that I'm NOT God, I know that I'm just a fallible human, and that I understand how the view that I AM being transformed as a Christian might sound scary to those who know all to well what has been done in the name of God. However, what I mean by "having the mind of Christ" (and this is part of my transformation) is that I should love all people, even the unlovable, the despised, the helpless. I mourn the suffering in the world, and believe that I have a responsibility to alleviate it. I hate injustice, and celebrate when people find God. That sort of thing. And it's more than just general feelings or token efforts. More and more, I am feeling--and responding to--the Spirit's pull to center my life around these things. And that's what I mean by having the mind of Christ.<br /><br />Thanks for allowing me to clarify.Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15063678082377147197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9112439593032667008.post-30626030458373847972010-08-05T21:39:59.076-07:002010-08-05T21:39:59.076-07:00But I truly believe that for the most part, I love...<i>But I truly believe that for the most part, I love what God loves, I hate what God hates, I mourn what God mourns, and I celebrate what God celebrates.</i><br /><br />I know you meant well, but I certainly find this sentiment kind of terrifying. People from most religions have this attitude. Even when they completely disagree with each other. Even when they are committing atrocities. To use a somewhat cliche example, I am sure that many of those who ran the Inquisition thought that they hated what God hated just as truly as you do.Erikahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16846371347200009801noreply@blogger.com